This is ugly:
As Georgian troops launched a major military offensive Friday to regain control over the breakaway province of South Ossetia, Russia denounced the move as “aggressive” and vowed to respond.
Russian authorities said several of its peacekeepers died in a Georgian attack in South Ossetia, which borders Russia and has strong ties to its vast northern neighbor, and they vowed not to leave Russian citizens in the territory unprotected.
“The Georgian leadership has launched a dirty adventure,” a statement from Russia’s Defense Ministry said on Friday. “We will not leave our peacekeepers and Russian citizens unprotected.”
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Georgia started the fighting and warned that Russia would respond to their actions.
“Heavy weapons and artillery have been sent there, and tanks have been added. Deaths and injuries have been reported, including among Russian peacekeepers,” Putin said in comments carried Friday by Russia’s Interfax news agency.
“It’s all very sad and alarming. And, of course, there will be a response.”
Russian troops have been killed:
Numerous” soldiers of the Russian intervention forces in South Ossetia would have been killed when their base was bombed by Georgian artillery during its attack on Tskhinvali, capital of the Georgian rebel autonomous province. A spokesman of the Russian troops said this, quoted by Russian press agency Interfax. Up to now the death toll of the attack was reported to be 3 injured. According to sources in South Ossetia, the Georgian bomb attack would have made at least 15 victims, injuring many more.
According to a recent AP news alert Russian troops are moving into South Ossetia now.
Related:
Military of Georgia (Wikipedia)
54 Responses
Readers are solely responsible for the comments they post. Comments do not necessarily reflect the opinion or approval of Blogs of War or John Little.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:26 am
All I have to say is: “Georgia, you better start running!!” I see Georgia being assimilated into Russia in the next 5 years. You’ll see! :)
August 8th, 2008 at 8:41 am
Russia needs to realize that the soviet era is over and policing small former republics spreads hate toward Russia. Russia is the biggest country in the world and they still want to add more territories to their land.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:46 am
I wonder when CNN will start providing objective information as right now it looks like CNN shows only Georgian point of view and keep silence about many civilians killed in S.Osetia, several villages leveled and capital Tskhival is destroyed completely. Or it’s ok for Saakashvilli to kill innocent people only because he is very pro-US? It’s very hippocratic and subjective. Shame on you CNN, but other US media are even worth unfortunately.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Russia defends own citizens form agression of Saakashvili & Co.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:54 am
SJ, you should know the whole picture first before accusing Russia of greed for more territory. Georgia starts the war, bombs the cities and suddenly you blame Russia.
August 8th, 2008 at 8:58 am
and so it begins…
no idea what
August 8th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Why Russia want’s to partition Georgia. Ossetia is part of Georgia and what Russian citizens are doing in there at the first place?
August 8th, 2008 at 9:10 am
Sj you are true but :
South Osetia became part of Georgia under Soviet Rule. People there have not Georgian origin and claim for independence. Do you remember Kosovo?
In which case separatists should be supported by external forces?
In which case the country which denies the independence of some territory has to be bombard by those external forces?
August 8th, 2008 at 9:33 am
LK,
I see what you are saying. Sorry, it’s easy to see Russia as aggressors according to my past experiences. I don’t know that region very well and will not post any more comment. Hope diplomacy will solve this issue between Georgia and Ossetia.
I’m Armenian from USA and Armenia has the same problem with Azerbaijan. Soviet Union handed out vast territory of Armenia to Azerbaijan during their rule. We have Armenians who came to United States from that region and saying horrible stories committed by Azaries against Armenians.
Even Russia handed out ARARAT Mountains (Armenian Symbol) to Turkey during a peace treaty with Ottoman Empire. So on ….etc….
August 8th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Sj,
I am not a supporter of Russian militarism. What i am trying to say
is that every global or local superpower defines the international law as it wishes. So we should judge them with the same criteria and we should try to avoid the fake informations from the media which usually serve their intentions (superpowers). Russia does not try to get a small piece of land with 70000 thousand. Russia tries to control the roads of energy (gas,oil) there. Like West does, which supports Georgia current government.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am
Sj,
I am not a supporter of Russian militarism. What i am trying to say
is that every global or local superpower defines the international law as it wishes. So we should judge them with the same criteria and we should try to avoid the fake informations from the media which usually serve their intentions (superpowers). Russia does not try to get a small piece of land with 70000 people. Russia tries to control the roads of energy (gas,oil) there. Like West does, which supports Georgia current government.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:43 am
South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia after two referendums that produced similar results, a war with Georgia in the 90-s, and economic blockade by Georgia. Read for yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
August 8th, 2008 at 9:49 am
I agree with AndyNYC about CNN. I used to think their reporting was objective. I have yet to see any statements coming out of the South Ossetia’s government. Why is it that no western press is posting their comments? If you read many European news agencies you will see that Georgia fired the first shot. They are the ones that are shelling the homes and their jets are strafing the people as they flee in busses into their escaping land. Where are they running to for safety……….Russia. Of course it may also be because Saakashvili is an offical Bush butt kisser that CNN only prints Georgia’s side of the story.
Think about it – if Russia was invading Georgia why would the people from South Ossetia flee “into” Russia. Because most of them have Russian citizenships and understand that Saakashvili is a crazy lunatic.
In one of my recent vacations in Moscow a gentleman from Georgia told me how horrible it was in his country under Saakashvili’s rule. There are no jobs and all of the state money is being dumped into the military and government while the people starve. So he came to Moscow illegally to work so he could send money home to his family.
He also explained that if you spoke out against him or his party “bad things” would happen to you. I have learned many years ago that if you want to hear the real story talk to the people – not the press.
August 8th, 2008 at 9:59 am
“Where are they running to for safety………Russia”
JC, they are actually fleeing to the Northern Ossetia, which is administratively part of Russia. These are two parts of the same people, geographically split between Georgia and Russia.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:04 am
Everyone World Leader that made friends with Bush has failed. Georgia President sucked up to the Axis of Evil Leader George W. Bush and now he’s all alone as Russia attacks. Most Leaders have seen Bush is a user and not a trusted friend nor can you believe his word. Bush is a liar and he will say and do anything to steal what you have. Now Georgia will see Russia is a country of it’s word. Russia said they would protect Iran if Iran was attacked. Bush is at the Olympics and could care less about Georgia.
August 8th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Shame on Georgia! Attacking its own people, killing civilians and destroying villages. This is called ethnic cleansing. Shakashvilli should be put to Hague tribunal.. Hopefully, Russians will destroy that bustard. Americans, as always bet on the wrong horse by training and supplying weapons to Georgians! Freedom and democracy at its best!
August 8th, 2008 at 11:20 am
I have traveled and lived in both places, Moscow & Rep of Georgia, talked to many many people in both places. Alot of people who are just now finding out about this issue due to the attack, are ignorant of what’s been brewing in Georgia for years. Russia is no angel in this situation, they have amassed a strong military at the boarder, they have been caught many times sending armed militias over to Georgia boarders and tell them to act as citizens trying to work for independence. Northern Ossetia is mostly mountains and few populations are scattered throughout the area, it’s very very hard to control this from both sides. Moscow even goes as far as to assign as president for Northern Ossetia from inside Moscow, does that mean he is the real president NO!!!..remember how china elected its own pope cause they did not like the original pope, they even elected there own Dali Lama…this is same thing going on
Georgia government is not all rosy either, they are overly aggressive and tend to be very stubborn and judgmental mindset (hence the last major power outages they blamed on Moscow) power outage . But over all…this one event is Russian fault, they made this what is it and need to get the hell out of there…Northern Ossetia is part of Georgia now Russia. Take your time, and do your research and you will see everything I am saying is true..
peace..
I love both countries but whats fair is fair..Russia needs to leave Georgia alone..and let them be..
I live in Moscow and have a wife there just so you know..
August 8th, 2008 at 11:39 am
One fact is worth understanding – Georgia started heavy bombardment of Tshinvali at 3AM. They say they are restoring “constitutional order”. Just imagine the situation when you and your kids sleep at home and your own governement starts to kill you to restore “constitutional order”. That’s insane.
August 8th, 2008 at 11:50 am
I just have returned from South Ossetia. Georgians had started to shoot by heavy guns and tanks at 11.30 p.m. Obviously, it was very prepared military operation. Thousands of civilians are killed. A hospital and an University are ruined. There is no anymore ossetian city Tskinval and two villages. Just ruined. Whom we should regard as a criminal and a candidated for Haage tribunal?…
August 8th, 2008 at 12:11 pm
Saakashvili’s gone nuts. I hope Bush fires him soon else it will be a big war
August 8th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
PLEASE PEACE
August 8th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
The fact is that South Ossetian rebels began escalating the intensity of their attacks on Georgian territory and Georgian troops. I certainly don’t believe that Georgia’s taking their capital constitutes as being a “proportionate response” as Georgia put it, but at the very least they endured ample provocation to justify a military response. The Russians, however, cannot come up with any justification for an INVASION of Georgia. I don’t believe that the idea that escalating the conflict by attacking Georgia will make Russian citizens in South Ossetia SAFER is sound logic, and obviously in recent years the world has witnessed (and largely ignored) a more aggressive Russia that is attempting to FORCE other countries into its sphere of influence once more. Put two and two together. If the South Ossetians truly believe that Russia is coming to their rescue, then I hate to burst your bubble, but Mother Russia is just using you as an excuse to annex Georgia once more. I think that the Western world must stop goggling at the Olympics, get their act together, and issue a very firm but restrained response. The West must not show weakness during a direct conflict between an aspiring NATO country and Russia, or we may see more in the future.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I wish there could be peace, I very badly wish there could be peace, but unfortunately this is a conflict that did not start in 2008, or even in the early 90s.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
“The fact is that South Ossetian rebels began escalating the intensity of their attacks on Georgian territory and Georgian troops” (?)
Sounds like a rumor not a fact. Or should I say like an excuse for invasion?
August 8th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
I guess that Bush already knew about this leaders “issues” with people that try to protest in Georgia against the government.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/12/AR2007111201549.html
If you read the non cleansed story elsewhere you will find out that the people in question that were sent into exile were indeed executed. I did not know our leadership promotes this kind of actions. Bush is always on Russia’s case about human rights but I guess he forgot his new friend is just as bad.
http://www.news.mail.ru/politics/1933881
Makes me wonder what kind of military kills civilians with handguns in the streets and executes injured Russian soldiers. I am glad that our leaders are behind this kind of activity and supporting him in all of his actions. Of course when these atrocities are revealed ( if ) I wonder who will be flip flopping in their support of this country.
I think that maybe because Georgia sent 1000 troops to Iraq may have helps buy a little favoritism from our government…….what do you think?
Russian leaders have said they will defend Russian citizens where ever they may reside. Who are we to talk……..we invade countries and cause wars for much less than defending our citizens from a butcher.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
in response to ma: unfortunately it is not a rumor. The South Ossetians attacked positions inside Georgia with mortars and artillery, as well as blowing up an armored personel carrier with an anti-tank rocket, killing most and badly injuring the survivors. Georgia responded by shelling South Ossetian positions and then issued a cease-fire. South Ossetia broke the cease-fire. I don’t think that an invasion of South Ossetia is the right thing to do, but I respect Georgia’s right to self-defense just as I have respected South Ossetia and Abkhazia’s right to self defense in past conflicts where I viewed Georgia as being the aggressor by choice and not necessity.
August 8th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
People, have you no shame? There is outrageous lie and there is facts… Georgia attack independent from it for 15 years civilian region in midnight in the day of opening Olympics with missiles and battle-planes, attacked purposely peacekeapers in region, and already in the morning Saak….li giving interview to CNN… what could be more hypocrisy ??? Try to think independently, don’t be brainwashed vegetables… Western media haveforggoten what the truth mean…
August 8th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
bu dor Says:
August 8th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
in response to ma: unfortunately it is not a rumor.
Have you been there? Have you seen this? Or are you watching CNN? The questions are mostly rhetorical. I recall a citate from one movie: “I’ve seen it on TV, so it’s true”.
The problem is that Tshinvali is ruined. Any Georgian town is burnt to ashes? Any destructions in georgian territory? Any georgian civilians killed? Any ossetian troops in georgian territory?
Ossetia started this, yeah, sure…don’t be a brainwashed vegetable
August 8th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
This crisis does not bode well for McCain, either domestically or internationally. He’s stuck his finger, figuratively, but repeatedly in the Russians’ eyes at the behest of his senior foreign policy advisors, Randy Scheunemann (a former lobbyist for Georgia) and Kori Schake, who are both, unfortunately, very inexperienced in the devising and implementing policies and real world strategies for achieving success in foreign policy and military strategy. Thus, no one in McCain’s immediate circle has the necessary credibility to adequately address this situation. Neither Scheunemann nor Schake has any military experience or any relevant experience in senior policy making positions except as executive assistants to policymakers.
Scheuenemann has done nothing more besides lobbying inside the Beltway than work on Congressional staffs where he, in representing his boss’ agenda, picked apart policies and strategies devised and implemented others without having to devise or implement any of his own. Schake is an academic and research fellow and has no leadership and management experience as a national security policy maker either nor as a political strategist. What they encouraged McCain to do vis-a-vis pushing Russia out of the G-8 and expanding NATO beyond the limits even the Europeans were comfortable with are not good examples of a realist approach to foreign policy issues.
These two have shown a distinct lack of strategic vision on foreign policy and credibility in planning political operations, or adapting them as the environment changes, over the past several months as opposed to that shown by Obama’s team. The positions they fill on the McCain campaign are too important to be left to intellectual lightweights and ideologues like them. McCain needs better people in place to balance his shoot from the lip nature, and after watching Scheunemann’s and Schake’s performance in June and July he must realize they need to be replaced.
In tolerating Scheunemann and Schake up to this point gives an indication that McCain doesn’t know as much about foreign policy, national security, military strategy, and how to win wars (or political campaigns) as he claims to know. US foreign policy is too critical to be left to people who continue to be advocates of being overly agressive and unilaterally provocative with potential adversaries.
August 8th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Some of the blogs are reporting this as the news comes in they are more reliable than the mainstream media, because the mainstream media is focused on the Olympics. There is some interesting analysis on this blog: http://stockparadise.blogspot.com/2008/08/russian-troops-enter-georgia.html
August 8th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
I don’t understand much about war and politics. But bombing hospital and densely populated areas where there is no military bases, nothing, just women and children sleeping in their houses, refusing to ceasefire to let people leave the town… Ethnic cleansings in Ossetian villages… Old women, children and babies, hiding in the basements of ruined houses… That’s not 21-century thing!! Do you think Russia really wants to invade Georgia? Who needs Georgia? we have too many home promblem to invade it. Mr. Saakashvili, before becoming a president, had to learn the art of dialogue. Now he resembles a boy who doesn’t know how to settle the quarrel with words and starts fighting.
I only hope that this conflict is settled down and won’t spread further.
August 8th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Shocked! Saakashvili is new fascist in XXI century! He already killed more than 1500 peace ppls in Ossetia! Make Love, Dont War!
August 8th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Russia had inaf territory.
This is bull shit.
Georgian military kills 1400 civilian people in 1 night and 12 russian peacmakers soldgers. Thats wai russian tanks roll in. Dont be stupide !!!
Than you see “GRAD” SHOOTING IN THE NIGHT – IT IS GEORGIAN SHOOT SLIPPING chenvali.
August 8th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
How you can be so silly? I live in Russia, in the south, rather near to a place of military actions. When I today in Internet have seen reporting BBC that occurs,my hair on a head have begun to move. In this reporting showed shootings six-year prescription!!! On it video which has distributed BBC, is shown as the Georgian armies fire at inhabitants ossetia, during the last war. Thus to you speak, what is it and there is an attack on the Georgian villages. I have a lot of friends from northern ossetia. They do not understand, how Georgia can so lie. And more one. About 70 % of the population ossetia you are southern citizens Russian.What intervention speak? To you make a fool a head. Georgia operates due to instructions USA.With that how to accuse us of intrusion on territory Georgia, be asked a question, whether the truth is spoken by your news agencies?
August 8th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Tony is absolutely right. The city is completely destroyed. 1400 civilians reported dead. Russian peacekeeper lost 12 soldiers killed and more than 30 injured. I ask to note that they were set there in accordance with an agreement signed by Georgia and together with Georgian peacekeepers. They did not and could not open fire on Georgiana by the very simple reason: Russians had only rifles while they were bombarded with heavy artillery and mortars. More than a half of civilians in Tshinvali are Russian citizens. Now, please, answer the question what Russia was supposed to do? Sit and look at Georgian troops finalizing killing of Russian peacekeepers and civilians?
August 8th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Its just insanity.
When the same media thing happened to Tibet – it was fun to watch all the false reports, mistakes, misinformation e.t.c.
Like the examples linked here http://www.anti-cnn.com
Media sure does its job bad, but they still must be right generaly as everyone knows Chinese are evil.
Now the same happens with a conflict you know from personal expirience media covers completely biased, and you start asking yourself – how much else about what a media reports is complete and utter bullshit?
August 8th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
Here is one website you won’t see on CNN.
It’s hosted by people within South Ossetia
http://tskhinval.ru/
Here is my software translation but if you can read Russian you will see what this guy is trying to do to the US.
“The interview for television channel CCN issued a call the USA to enter the war with South Osetia on the side of Georgia, transfers Reuters. “Now this no longer only affair of Georgia. This is encroachment in America, on its value, he stated. – We – freedom-loving nation, and our freedom now under the impact”.
If you read the one translated page at that URL you will see that unloading a bus of civilians and killing them all is NOT what American values are about. However, I am sure someone will spin it that they were terrorists or 3 year olds that posed a threat with their mini-AKs.
Don’t forget that Bush is trying to bring Georgia and Ukraine into NATO. My wife is from Ukraine and reads that about 85% of the population does not want to join NATO. Bush is also playing Ukraine President Yushchenko the same way he is playing the Georgian president. We shall see if Georgia is able to keep blinding the press with these BS stories and get NATO to do something to try to stop Russia.
My history is a little fuzzy – Did Bush get permission from NATO before he invaded Iraq?
August 8th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
AT first assetians have started atacking peacfull georgians after atack m.saakashvile gave them chance to
stop fire but they didnot stoped fire and after only for
protecting our people georgian troops atacked cxinvali
and here are the people who are telling others to not
speak about that that they didnot know and i can tell u
that u are dezinformed and its u dont know nothing
if when cxinvali started atack after 30 minutes there whent kazaks yazaxs and many other boevics and whot wos
doing there that forces ??? they where just wolking and heared that cxinvali need help and helped then??
it wos russians operation to take control on all georgia
becouse cxinvali whithout russia is nothing
August 8th, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Russia is a Communist Country in Hiding. I mean, what’s the need for a president if the Putin has more power than him? It was an expected move… don’t think the west will sit down and watch it all happen. If NATO, or any of the anti-soviet allies start moving, i see Russia running away, or WWIII either way, it’s not helping the world economy.
August 8th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
FREE CHECHNYA!
STOP RUSSIAN TERRORISM
August 8th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
South Osetia, Georgia – Georgia has finally explicitly shown its true intention in foreign policy – attack and kill innocent people in Southern Osetia. Hundreds of people are currently under fire from Georgian side. Neighbour states, such as Russia, are struggling to help. The intention is clear: just render help to the people that are currently in struggles. I really don’t know why it is presented as an attempt to occupy territories by most news agencies. I just do not believe that a country that has always made efforts to intensify peace in the region. Moreover, Russia has sent humanitarian aid, the troops being only the result of Georgian army shooting Russian peace-keeping forces.
? Most refugees from Southern Ossetia are heading to Russia – would people head for the country that’s attacked them? I don’t think so.
Russia does not have an objective to invade Georgia, rather it wants Georgia to stop killing civilians.
August 9th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Do not believe the Georgian invaders. They killed women and children. This is genocide.
August 9th, 2008 at 4:23 am
First of all,Osetia is a georgian land,and Russia don’t have the right to interfere in his internal affairs just because the russian citizens there,who received the citizenship just for russian government to justify the interventions,only a few of them are really russian ethnics,and the same situation is in all separatist regions created and financed by Russia..
And there are no “pacificators”,that’s just occupation army’s,being there to protect the mafiots who raped a piece of land..
When the Yankees bombarded Baghdad,all hospitals has been full of children and women,and i see that Bush is in White House,not Haga…
RUSSIAN ARMY GO HOME!
August 9th, 2008 at 11:39 am
Right now your beloved and “brave” georgians trained by yankies are killing peaceful people by casting granades into basements where helpless children, women and elder people are sitting! If you support them you’re the same criminals and fascists as they are.
To Immortal: it’s the highest level of bravery and justice to hide behind the support of a strong but shameless “friend” and to kill children, isn’t it? the US can and why can’t we? They will help us.
August 11th, 2008 at 6:37 am
Last Commentator is Lying Exactly like Russian representative in UN. The Whole Campaign of Russian Federation is Built On Lies, including Media, ” the simple strategy of communists”. But the worst thing is that the world is afraid of them, not considering that they will be next.
August 11th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Poor Russia, it’s so “small” that it can’t walk by the Ossetia =))) Russia is obliged to add it to it’s enormous territory, to look bigger and stronger than it has ever been. Shocking!
It’s astonishing!
Why can’t Russia leave all ex Soviet Republics to leave their own life without being under Russian control ?!
Russia should look after it’s real, nowadays territories. And let Georgia and Osetia solve their problems themselves, without any interventions.
What have we done ?! What are we blamed for ? What are we accused for ?!
We just want LIVE in PEACE
IS IT A CRIME ?!
WE WANT PEACE ! NO WAR !!!!
I love my country – my GEORGIA!
AND I’M AGAINST WAR!
August 11th, 2008 at 10:59 am
“Last Commentator is Lying Exactly like Russian representative in UN. The Whole Campaign of Russian Federation is Built On Lies, including Media, ” the simple strategy of communists”. But the worst thing is that the world is afraid of them, not considering that they will be next.”
Yes just like our presentations at the UN that Iraq poses a threat to the world with their weapons of mass destruction. Only now are the agencies saying they told Bush they told him they had no proof that these weapons were there……….Bush did what he wanted and “saw what he wanted to see”.
These stories are making me crazy – it all boils down to……..and think about this……..why can the US police the whole world and start wars without the backing of the UN or NATO. Then when someone else does it’s bad………such a hypocrisy.
However, in this case Russia has no choice…..Georgia has killed almost 3% of the population and Russia stepped in to stop this madness. Remember Georgia entered into South Osetia and not the other way around. They started this mess and stirred the hornets nest expecting the US and NATO to help……..what a big dummy. Only now do they say they know they cannot win a war against Russia…lol.
In reality if Russia did nothing and when all of these atrocities were reveled they would be getting chewed out for doing nothing to save the civilians……it’s a lose-lose scenario. With the Bush / McCain anti-Russia campaign running in full force this last 2 years they have to side with their new best buddy Georgia. They need a few new countries to place their “missile defense” system into.
August 11th, 2008 at 1:02 pm
I tell you so, Georgia politc prostitute, she performs all that it orders the United States. Georgia invaded South Ossetia and is impersonating the victim to the same all the Western media bias and show just what is happening in Georgia, and this stuff, compared to what was happening in Ossetia. For all European and American channels, and only show Gori (Georgia). But no one remembered that Georgia launched this war, and has arranged itself in the joy of this spectacle U.S. and Europe, the main role of course is America, it dictates how and what to do Georgia, and that in turn serves and dirty orders. Saakashvili – a puppet, which the West wants a vert. He was not aware that he had killed 1600 civilians, not in his country, and he and another alleged victim. I can say that this is another conspiracy USA to humiliate Russia prerd all countries, but everybody understands that this is not possible, because now Russia will not allow this puppet – Saakashvili, to wage war. Disheartening that in the west (the U.S. and Europe) so people wash brains on television that they believe everything unconditionally ……… You decide what to believe, and what – no !!!!!!
P.S. The Georgian people are not guilty, that he had such a president
August 11th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
I agree with Andy from NY also. CNN is presented one side of the issue. BBC says eye witness are claiming different…….I want to know if someone would start a war to win a Presidency. I wonder !
August 12th, 2008 at 9:49 am
“1. UN troopers were deployed between Georgia and South Osetia to prevent war. In order to attack Tskhinvali, the Georgians first killed the UN peacekeepers. This means, the UN peacekeepers were killed for carrying out their tasks assigned by the UN. This act of Georgia was not against South Osetia nor Russia, it was against the UN and the whole world’s community. Georgia has violated UN resolutions on ceasefire.
2. After killing UN peacekeepers the Georgians attacked Osetians. In order to attack the capital of South Osetia, the city of Tskhinvali, Georgian troops needed to pass through several Osetian villages. Georgian troopers destroyed these villages and murdered people who lived there; they used tanks to destroy houses and shot with machine guns at people who tried to escape: women, children, old people.
3. The capital of South Osetia, the city of Tskhinvali, was attacked by Georgia with indiscriminate weapons, i.e. houses of peaceful people were bombed with heavy bombs, missiles, shot at with tanks and grenade launchers, and Georgians have in fact razed the city to the ground.
4. As Russia discovered that Georgians:
- killed UN peacekeepers;
- violated the UN Regulation on ceasefire;
- destroyed several Osetian villages and murdered people who lived there;
- started destroying the city of Tskhinvali and its people,
it had no other choice but to stop the aggressor and the genocide of Osetians.
5. Georgia must bear a strong international responsibility for its crimes, namely:
- killing UN peacekeepers, who fulfilled their duties under international regulation;
- violating UN regulations on ceasefire;
- destroying several Osetian villages and murdering people who lived there (de facto this is a genocide);
- using indiscriminate weapons against civilians of Tskhinvali.
6. It is necessary to demand economical and political sanctions against Georgia.”
http://pisali.ru/Pravdoiskatel/6821/
August 15th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
The news analysis you need from Spike:
The US blundered into the Iraq war on the basis of dumb PR, wrong intelligence and total cluelessness about historic ethnic animosity, with every tribe taking turns at leading us around by the nose. Here we go again in Georgia, tied in by Iraq of all places.
Ossetians will fight to the death to avoid being governed by Georgians – that’s been their culture for hundreds of years and it kept them independent until Stalin gave Ossetia to Georgia. Stalin was a Georgian born in Gori, so he tossed plenty of perks, like the odd smaller country or two, Georgia’s way. Hometown boy makes good and all that.
When Stalin’s Soviet Union fell apart in 1990 the Ossetians fought Georgia for two bitter years to regain their independence from Stalin’s gift of them to Georgia. They won and in 1992 Georgia agreed to their autonomy and promised not to try to take South Ossetia by force. Russia sent in peacekeepers (no other country wanted to get involved, a wise call in retrospect) and for sixteen years the South Ossetians have been free of Georgian rule. No one else would recognize them, but at least they were free.
Good times only last so long. Georgia needed money so they sucked up to the US by sending 2000 troops as cannon fodder for Iraq. With an embattled Bush Administration trying to color the Iraq war as a “multinational” effort, those 2000 guys were plenty enough to get the Bushies on their knees in gratitude. Next thing you know, megabucks and military aid flowed Georgia’s way, with thousands of US advisors rotating in and out of the country and arms and weapons aplenty for George Bush’s new best friends.
Oh, and despite the Georgia’s loving maintenance in Gori of a huge statue of Josef Stalin, one of the worst Communist dictators and mass murderers in history, the Bushies started testifying again and again how wonderfully democratic the Georgians had become. 2000 body bags ready to go in Iraq will do that for you.
So what happened? Turns out Georgia’s East Coast college educated President Saakashvilli knows how to work PR magic with the Bushies but he doesn’t know how to run a country. Never did it before, seems like. Georgians looking for jobs and a good life were getting tired of endemic corruption, broken promises, sinking economy… well, you know, kind of like the Bush Administration. So what’s a close friend of George Bush going to do to raise his popularity? What would George do? Hey! There’s the answer! Invade a smaller country!
Losing to the Ossetians in 1992 took a bite out of Georgian pride, so Saakashvilli promised his party and his people he’d restore that pride by taking South Ossetia back. Problem was, after sixteen years of running their own show the Ossetians had gotten kind of used to being independent. Worse yet, after becoming pariahs as far as Georgia was concerned they had turned to their other neighbor, Russia, for food, fuel, passports, foreign aid and all that other good stuff. Russia was happy to oblige, made promises to Ossetia, lots of Russians settled there (cheaper than Moscow, you know, and a lot better weather), well, the usual drill when big countries pick up a new client. All that first date stuff.
Saakashvilli also made the mistake of trying to buff up his image inside Georgia and with the Bushies by poking Russia in the eye at every opportunity. Worked well in Georgia but you really have to ask yourself if that was smart given the total lack of any sense of humor in the Russian leadership about getting poked in the eye. Even the Bushies finally realized they had a loose cannon on their hands. Too late, comrades, too late!
Last Thursday night as the Ossetians and all the rest of the world was sitting down to watch the Olympics on TV, Saakashvilli launched a really well executed, sneak attack tank and air assault on South Ossetia. Caught them totally by surprise and took the capital of South Ossetia almost before the Ossetians could put down their vodka and get up from the TV. Didn’t know the Georgians had that in them! But you know how those sneak attacks work great when they catch some bozo by surprise. Worked great at Pearl Harbor, too.
Turns out Georgia had detailed intelligence gathered by flying drones over South Ossetia for months prior. Just two months ago three drones were shot down, so you know they had a lot more than just three. Russia and Ossetians should have been tipped off by that, but it looks like they never imagined Georgia would come storming across the border with tanks, killing anyone that got in their way. Dumb Russians!
It gets worse. Those stupid Russians had a bunch of peacekeepers in South Ossetia who never got the memo about when the enemy comes in with tanks and all you’ve got is side arms you get the heck out of Dodge. Time to cut and run just like the West did in Rwanda. It’s not your fight, man, so just run back to the TV, keep watching the Olympics and let the Georgians do what they came to do.
Stupid Russians didn’t get that memo. The Russian peacekeepers lined up against the Georgian tanks, pulled out their pistols and got cut to pieces, about a hundred of ‘em killed outright. Stupid Russians. Don’t they know being a peacekeeper is about running away from a fight? Maybe they were just mad about having to miss TV coverage of the Olympic opening ceremony and were too liquored up to realize the Georgians were shooting to kill.
Well, you know how unreasonable the Russians get when you kill a few hundred of their people. You hear people say thousands got killed, but despite the odor of corpses in the streets of South Ossetia it’s hard to add up more than a few hundred, counting the handful of peacekeepers and a bunch of Ossetian and Russian civilians. Those Russians should drink less vodka and get a better sense of proportion when they complain about genocide.
But, heck no, that’s not the Russian way. They just have no sense of proportion at all, acting real mad when you run them over with tanks. Hey, don’t they know that Georgia is a democracy and the Georgian president went to Columbia and is a good friend of Bush? Don’t they know that Georgia wouldn’t have pulled a sneak attack and killed all those people unless they were provoked real bad by those horrible Ossetians? Nope. All that impeccable Bush logic was a lost cause with the Russians.
Well so those totally insensitive Russians started driving tanks across the border from Russia into Ossetia as fast as they could. Lucky for the Ossetians the Russians had plenty of tanks because the border to Ossetia is only about five miles from the Russian war zone with Chechnya and Ingushetia. The Russians have been fighting a war there for about twenty years against Islamic crazies so they had plenty of tanks on hand.
In case anyone forgets, the Chechens are those wonderful people who think an effective military strategy is to seize 500 people in a hospital as hostages, killing as many of them as they can to get the Russians riled up. Works great! The Chechens also introduced the innovation of chainsawing the limbs off hostages on video to show they mean business. That sure gets your attention as well. So, anyway, given the Chechens are about the only group on the planet who scare the innards out of RUssians that meant Russia had plenty of tanks and Chechen war battle-hardened troops available just a few miles away that could rush into South Ossetia. And so they did.
Saakashvilli planned on taking South Ossetia overnight and he almost made it. Darned peacekeepers wouldn’t run, though, and that slowed him up just enough for the routes into Russia to stay open and allow the aforementioned Chechen war battle-hardened troops to come streaming into Ossetia. There weren’t many of them (too few roads) but man, were they honkin’ mad at how the Georgians had interrupted their much-anticipated viewing of Olympic beach volleyball. Don’t get much nookie in those Chechen war zones you know, so they weren’t happy about being deprived their bikini athletic experience.
There was also that small matter of how Russians go postal when you kill a few hundred of their people in a sneak attack, and the usual indignation when the Russian military gets caught by surprise and made to look like fools. Yep, those Chechen war battle-hardened troops were in a mean mood.
In fact they blew the Georgians out of South Ossetia in about 24 hours even though the Georgians outnumbered the inital Russian troops about ten to one. Heavy casualties on all sides, not that the Russans cared. No suprise the Russians kept coming and blasted their way into Georgia itself, streaming more and more armor across the border until, surprise! Russia held about a ten to one advantage over Georgia. With characteristic Russian understatement, a tank commander was heard to comment to a journalist, “Anyone who attacks Russia we will destroy.”
As you might expect the Bushies were totally surprised their unhinged client pulled a stunt like invading South Ossetia. What to do? Job one is to make it clear It Was Not George Bush’s Fault. Blame the Russians, which the Russians eagerly helped the Bushies do by making sure they sent spokespeople who couldn’t speak a word of English and when they did acted like their own worst enemies. Good job, Russians! Bush rolled out the script that a peaceful, democratic ally got attacked by a revived Soviet bear and now we have got to… what?
Well, you know the Bush doctrine. First part, build a missile system in an unrelated country like Poland. Second part, make sure no Mexican immigrants can get a job. Well, OK, no Mexicans there but we do have Ossetians. Let’s put the screws on them as the fall guys. They made the Georgians invade them. There, that makes sense! Final part, let’s get the US military involved so we can start another war. Perfect!
And, just like with Iraq an imbecile media is going to follow the above script when the Bushies feed it to them at the briefings. You know those reporters: deep down inside they all are uncertain about the length of their equipment so as soon as any president starts a shooting war they all like it when manpower and weaponry go on display. After a while (like a lot of bad dates) the hangover sets in and the media starts to regret what they agreed to the night before. Not too many media guys will admit to how happy they were for Bush when he dragged us into Iraq, will they?
We now have the spectacle of American arms and American prestige committed to defending Stalin’s partition of a tiny country, Ossetia. It’s a screwball world when it is the Russians that are trying to overturn Stalin’s diktat and to restore independence to that small country. Way to go George Bush! You put us on the side of Stalin! That’s a real cool historical legacy every American should want.
But wait, there’s more! We now have the Bush administration committing American arms and prestige to defending a, get this, sneak attack timed to take advantage of the opening of the Olympics. Hey, that’s wonderful. That’ll show the world our commitment to peace and freedom. Makes the Russians look bad, too, the way our client (go Georgia!) caught them napping.
So, backing a sneak attack and supporting Stalin’s world view is the American way, and getting Americans involved in yet another war where we are being played for fools by unstable clients will be the parting gift of the Bush administration. Is that what everyone wants?
Then again the Russians are being “disproporionate,” as if they didn’t get the memo about rolling over and playing dead. Dumb Russians. No sophistication at all. And, they got less medals than us. If that wasn’t a good reason to build more missile systems in unrelated countries and start more wars we can fly drones and get killed in, I don’t know what is.
I can hear some readers muttering, “OK, wise guy, what would you have us do?” Hey, that’s easy.
First off, we can’t blame the Georgians for anything because that would make us look bad. Repeat after me: the Georgians were provoked. The Russians made them defend themselves. We told them to resist being baited but gosh darn it, those Russians went too far. They did something terrible. Not sure what it was yet but we’ll come up with something in a couple of days.
Second, it wasn’t a sneak attack. No. You got that completely wrong and as soon as I get done PhotoShopping this you’ll see it was the Russians that attacked first. They invaded a smaller country. The Georgians were relaxing in their tanks, peacefully resting after cleaning up the South Ossetian neighborhood from some unsightly bodies, drinking whatever it is that Georgians drink when the Russians attacked them.
Third, the Russians have a totally disproportionate response going. Get out of Georgia, out of Ossetia and go back to Siberia or someplace. We’ll bury their dead and the Georgian dead as well. No, wait, there won’t be any Russian dead after I get done PhotoShopping this. Oh, and all those Georgian and Ossetian guys rampaging and holding up SUVs in the war zone, that’s a job for the Georgian police. They’ll do a much cleaner job of holding up those SUVs, just like they did before the war.
Fourth, let’s get Georgia into NATO. It’s a great idea to involve unstable countries in NATO so in case John McCain gets elected he’ll have lots of reasons to go to war. Republicans like that, you know, so you have to plan for the future.
Fifth, let’s build a missile system in Poland. This is completely, totally necessary to defend the Germans and the French against Iranian missiles and spending trillions of dollars on that is a great way to make sure the French never run out of reasons to ridicule the falling dollar. It also gives the Russians something to aim their nukes at besides us.
Finally, let’s ask Russia to throw the G7 out of the G8 and to pull out of the WTO. It is too embarrassing that we’re the only country that needs the WTO anymore since our economy depends upon manufacturing in China. This will fix that by removing any need for the WTO. And, once Russia throws the G7 out of the G8, since they are the only country that is energy-independent in the G8 we’ll be spared the humiliation of having the G7 fall apart when the aforementioned Germans and French and all the rest get down on their knees to Russia’s control of the energy they need.
Oh, and let’s make sure to impose Stalin’s plan for Ossetia. Last thing we want is to guarantee free elections to let the Ossetians choose if they want to be free of war, to be their own country or to join whatever country they want.
Spike, over and out!
September 8th, 2008 at 12:25 am
I wonder if this site has been attacked by KGB agents, or brainwashed by criminal Putin’s propaganda.
Otherwise how else sane people can defend what russia is doing? giving out passports freely to foreign cutizens, while their own citizens who came back from other former SU republics are required to pay bribes to get passports?
No matter what Georgia would do russians would have started the war. it was all planned from april when germany and france blocked the acceptance of goergia and ukraine to NATO.
I sure hope russian kgb criminals will get at the end what they deserve for their endless crimes. Killing journalists, killing former kgb guys who had honesty to run and tell the world what kgb is all about, killing their own people in Chechnya.
I just want to puke listeting all their lies on TV. “Defending Russian citizens” my ass. You killed 200,000 real russian citizens during the war in Chechnya so that putin could get his ratings up, and now you are “defending russian citizens” and “peacekeepers”.
September 8th, 2008 at 12:30 am
Hey guys,
please font listen to those kgb agents and brainwashed russians… Look what they are saying, Georgians killed UN peacekeepers… Do you mean russian peackeepers? If they killed UN peackeepers do you think the world would not know about this?
russian occupants continue to rob goergian villages. their own government keeps them hungry, they go around and rob citizens. WHAT A SHAME! KGB should be prosecuted by international law.
Eltsin was so right when he threw out those KGB guys from service. But now they are all back, thanks to this criminal putin…
September 10th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Georgians Did Not Start the War: The Russians Did! And the Russians Did it Because Russia is Very Sick Today With Xenophobia and Nostalgia for the Soviet Empire!
Since beginning of August 2008, the Russian “Peacekeepers” together with Ossetian illegal militia have been ethnically cleansing Georgian villages and killing innocent civilians! Just think about this…
Many experts and diplomats wondered whether the Russian government is sick with xenophobia and with the nostalgia of “good, old Soviet Union” is trying to revive the forgotten empire. Or maybe they are just playing a very stupid game that will have extremely severe consequences to the future of Russia and its citizens.
It is not a new fact that the people from Caucasus republics are constantly being discriminated in Russia, are targets of Russian neo-Nazi groups and live second class citizens lives. The Russian government never tried to understand the mentality, culture and social norms of the people from the Caucasus region. Throughout history the Russian empire or the Soviets or Putin’s regime have been applying one rule to the Caucasus region in order to maintain control over it: divide and conquer! Putin successfully fueled ethnic tensions between various Caucasus nationalities, so they all had to look up to the Russians for help and the roots of this policy date back to Tsar’s Russian Empire, when the Russians were only able to take control over Caucasus with the help of Caucasus nations, primarily the Georgians. The Georgians thought they were doing a favor and Tsar would leave them alone to govern their own lives, but the Georgians were wrong.
After the collapse of Soviet Union the Russian government successfully fueled ethnic tensions between Armenians and Azerbaijanis, Georgians and Ossetians, Georgians and Abkhazians, Ingushis and Ossetians, etc… This was the only strategy and the only game the Russian rulers played by: fuel hatred, divide the territories, resettle and arm the people so there will be no peace until the Russian soldier places his foot in the region. And of course, the Russian army is known for their outstanding performance in “peacekeeping” missions that have carried out, being involved in genocide, ethnic cleansing (Georgians in Abkhazia, South Ossetia, Chechen civilians), rape, murder, torture and the list goes on. At the end it seems that the Russian “peacekeeping mission” is not that peaceful at all.
It is evident that the Russian political system always been in shape of a Pyramid, where all the political and economic control spheres of country is divided between a leader (Czar, or Secretary General or Prime Minister) at the top, who has a direct control and right hand support of secret service at one angle and military at the other. This is the heart of the Russian political life and everything else develops around it. With a strong propaganda machine, complete control over Russian citizens is assured, as well as “democratic” elections where one candidate always receives the vast majority (if not all) of the votes and there never seems to be opposition to the candidate. And what about the President Medvedev? He is just another toy in Putin’s closet…
Putin decided to send a strong signal to the world and wished to overthrow the Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili, but he failed. He strongly believes that the fate of the Georgian people depends on his wishes and is determine to shape the borders of another sovereign country. This move directly threatens the World Order established after World War II. The current World Order is not perfect, but so far, with its deficiencies it is working.
After the brief war with Georgia, the Russian government tried to justify its move by saying that the Georgians started the war. Here is the first lie! The Georgian government has been saying since beginning of August 2008 that the situation in South Ossetia is escalating and the Russian “peacekeepers” are staging provocations together with illegal armed forces of South Ossetian separatist regime. They started killing Georgian police officers and firing artillery shells at the Georgian villages located in South Ossetia, but the world was preoccupied with getting ready for the opening ceremony of Beijing 2008 Olympics.
When the Georgian government officials told the Europeans in Brussels that we were at the brink of war, the Europeans politely warned the Georgians not to use the word “war” in the city of Brussels, because they do not like the word “war.” It seems that old Europe is getting older each day and with the age, because numerous warnings and cries by the Georgian officials fell on the deaf ears of old Europe. Never mind the fact that it took Hitler conquering Poland and Czechoslovakia, before the Western Europe realized this was a war.
And what about the Americans? The American society is in the midst of elections, the Democrats want to see Europe take more responsibility for security in Caucasus region, the Republicans are divided and worried about gay marriage and abortion rights… The friends of Georgia in new Europe are trying everything to force the old Europe take harsher approach towards Russia, but Europe is dependent on Russian natural gas and oil.
Giving up on a young democracy does not seem plausible for the Europeans, but the old Europe is scared of the new Russian bear. The new Russia is controlled by a xenophobic psychopath who has decided to break all the rules of the game, in order to change those rules. And the question comes: how can you stop a bully? Everyone can keep condemning the Russian government, but that paper will wind up in Putin’s toilet again… The only way to stop a bully is bully up against the bully – simple rule of life.
With the recognition of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, the Russian government has proven the world that they will violate international laws whenever they feel like it and they will use aggression in the name of peace as they did in Prague 1968. If the world would not stand up for Georgia, who will be the next prey of the hungry Russian bear? Maybe Ukraine? Or Moldova? Or who knows… The Russian government is as unpredictable as the weather in England…
The Georgian people are united and stand united, we have survived the onslaught by Mongols, Persians, Arabs, Turk-Seljuks throughout the history and we have still survived and we are not scared of the Russian bear either.
Just last question to Mr. Putin. Mr. Putin, if you are so concerned about the freedom of small minorities, why not recognize the independence of Chechnya? Then Daghestan? Then Ingushetia? And then all the other autonomous republics where the citizens do not even speak Russian? Think about that at first and then lets discuss the independence of South Ossetia and Abkhazia, after 300,000 Georgian refugees return to their own homes.
And to my fellow Abkhazian and South Ossetian brothers and sisters. Yes, there will be dancing and celebration in Sokhumi and Tskinvali. Yes, you will be smiling and waving flags – Georgian flags of course…